Comments on: Oregon Scientific ECHO PDA (PDA-293) Review http://the-gadgeteer.com/2001/04/20/oregon_scientific_echo_pda_pda_293_review/ Gadget reviews and news by Julie Strietelmeier and friends since 1997 Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:54:55 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: Judie http://the-gadgeteer.com/2001/04/20/oregon_scientific_echo_pda_pda_293_review/comment-page-1/#comment-14987 Judie Tue, 20 May 2003 20:42:12 +0000 #comment-14987 Well guys, You have definitely shed light on the subject - even though it is not what I wanted to hear... Ah well. Well guys,

You have definitely shed light on the subject – even though it is not what I wanted to hear…

Ah well.

]]> By: sljonson http://the-gadgeteer.com/2001/04/20/oregon_scientific_echo_pda_pda_293_review/comment-page-1/#comment-14986 sljonson Tue, 20 May 2003 20:20:29 +0000 #comment-14986 The main issue in getting PPC, Linux, PalmOS, etc. on a new PDA is achitecture. Each new model of PDA is virtually a new achitecture. So you have to expend a lot of effort. Even with the major building blocks being the same a lot of the "glue" infrastructure is different which means the development of more drivers. I can give a very good example using the IPAQ series of PDA and the porting of Linux at the handhelds.org site. That's hosted by the HP CRL (Cambridge Reseach Lab). The first major effort was getting the Linux Kernel and bootldr working on the IPAQ 36xx. The bootldr (boot loader) can be described as a BIOS for the IPAQ. The bootldr was the first item. It allowed for the kernel and disk images to be loaded into the flash memory, and the initial booting of the kernel into memory. Next was getting the kernel to just boot getting a console prompt. That is a major accomplishment. After that work was done on gettings all of the hardware to work, meaning drivers have to written. The hardware includes the LCD display hardware, the backlight, the touch screen, the hardware buttons, the sound system and a lot more. Finally work as being done on getting the IPAQ to be able to suspend and resume. handhelds.org was working with Russel King and the rest of the Linux ARM developers to get this working. (I get involved with the project at this point. I was the first one outside of the lab to test suspend and resume on an IPAQ). OK now the 37xx IPAQs where coming out. Except for the differences in the amount of RAM, the hardware was virtually the same as the 36xx. The changes to the kernel and bootldr where very simple. Then the 31xx made it's appearance. The hardware is similar except for only using 1 flash memory chip and a different LCD display. The changes to bootldr where minor, but a new display drivers had to be developed. Next came the 38xx IPAQ. the major building blocks where the same, but the rest of the IPAQ was new. Extensive changed to the bootldr and kernel where needed to got it to boot. Virtual all of the hardware drivers had to developed anew. New infrastruture hardware was used. And the battery recharing was moved from hardware control to software control. This meant a new subssystem had to be added to the kernel. Next on to the 59xx serial IPAQS. Yet more new hardware and but a lot of the outboard peripherals are the same as the 38xx. The main issue in getting PPC, Linux, PalmOS, etc. on a new PDA is achitecture. Each new model of PDA is virtually a new achitecture. So you have to expend a lot of effort. Even with the major building blocks being the same a lot of the “glue” infrastructure is different which means the development of more drivers.

I can give a very good example using the IPAQ series of PDA and the porting of Linux at the handhelds.org site. That’s hosted by the HP CRL (Cambridge Reseach Lab).

The first major effort was getting the Linux Kernel and bootldr working on the IPAQ 36xx. The bootldr (boot loader) can be described as a BIOS for the IPAQ. The bootldr was the first item. It allowed for the kernel and disk images to be loaded into the flash memory, and the initial booting of the kernel into memory. Next was getting the kernel to just boot getting a console prompt. That is a major accomplishment.

After that work was done on gettings all of the hardware to work, meaning drivers have to written. The hardware includes the LCD display hardware, the backlight, the touch screen, the hardware buttons, the sound system and a lot more.

Finally work as being done on getting the IPAQ to be able to suspend and resume. handhelds.org was working with Russel King and the rest of the Linux ARM developers to get this working. (I get involved with the project at this point. I was the first one outside of the lab to test suspend and resume on an IPAQ).

OK now the 37xx IPAQs where coming out. Except for the differences in the amount of RAM, the hardware was virtually the same as the 36xx. The changes to the kernel and bootldr where very simple.

Then the 31xx made it’s appearance. The hardware is similar except for only using 1 flash memory chip and a different LCD display. The changes to bootldr where minor, but a new display drivers had to be developed.

Next came the 38xx IPAQ. the major building blocks where the same, but the rest of the IPAQ was new. Extensive changed to the bootldr and kernel where needed to got it to boot. Virtual all of the hardware drivers had to developed anew. New infrastruture hardware was used. And the battery recharing was moved from hardware control to software control. This meant a new subssystem had to be added to the kernel.

Next on to the 59xx serial IPAQS. Yet more new hardware and but a lot of the outboard peripherals are the same as the 38xx.

]]> By: alanh http://the-gadgeteer.com/2001/04/20/oregon_scientific_echo_pda_pda_293_review/comment-page-1/#comment-14985 alanh Tue, 20 May 2003 19:40:37 +0000 #comment-14985 A normal developer doesn't have access to the Palm or PocketPC OS source code. Without that, you can't develop a version of the software that will run on arbitrary hardware. To get either, you have to pay loads of money to PalmSource or Microsoft (respectively), which isn't practical for someone who isn't developing and selling the hardware. A normal developer doesn’t have access to the Palm or PocketPC OS source code. Without that, you can’t develop a version of the software that will run on arbitrary hardware. To get either, you have to pay loads of money to PalmSource or Microsoft (respectively), which isn’t practical for someone who isn’t developing and selling the hardware.

]]> By: ChrisSpera http://the-gadgeteer.com/2001/04/20/oregon_scientific_echo_pda_pda_293_review/comment-page-1/#comment-14984 ChrisSpera Mon, 19 May 2003 17:43:24 +0000 #comment-14984 I've seen the process performed and botched. I've seen it performed and done correctly. I have seen the happy and the sad, the good and the bad and I really have to say that, It just ain't that easy... When putting a Linux distribution on an iPAQ, the unit is put into Terminal mode. The unit is still connected to the host PC via serial or USB cradle (I honestly don't remember if this could be done via Serial link or not... can anyone verify either way??) I don't know that the Zaurus supports Terminal Mode in the same way that the iPAQ's do. As Linux is an Open Source OS, there are a lot of different drivers available for a great many different devices. Pocket PC and Palm may not support the same devices from device to device. All of the ROM images are machine specific and you risk a HUGE "loss of device" kinda thing if you flash a Linux device with a Pocket PC or Palm ROM image that the internals of the target device can't handle. Many of the PPC/ Palm drivers are proprietary based on the architecture of the device. I don't know that the Sharp Zaurus would support drivers from any SINGLE ROM image. You may need the MS Core stuff from the original SDK that is sent to all OEM's but then a video driver from one, an audio driver from another, and a virtual memory driver from who knows where... I think this has been a one way upgrade (PPC to Linux) thus far because things on the Linux side are more standardized comparatively. The same can be said for a Palm to Linux upgrade... It may not have been done because the Palm device may not have comparable/ compatible drivers on the Linux side. From what I've seen of the entire process of PPC iPAQ to Linux iPAQ and back (There and Back Again: An Orc's Tail (no, I didn't spell that wrong...)), your Geek Coefficient has to be in the nose-bleed seats before this becomes a fun and easy project. Going from Linux to PPC or Palm, or even Palm to Linux, hasn't been successfully done and reported because the technical issues are probably insurmountable at this time. But this is just a guess, really; and seriously nothing more than that... Kind Regards, Christopher Spera I’ve seen the process performed and botched. I’ve seen it performed and done correctly. I have seen the happy and the sad, the good and the bad and I really have to say that,

It just ain’t that easy…

When putting a Linux distribution on an iPAQ, the unit is put into Terminal mode. The unit is still connected to the host PC via serial or USB cradle (I honestly don’t remember if this could be done via Serial link or not… can anyone verify either way??)

I don’t know that the Zaurus supports Terminal Mode in the same way that the iPAQ’s do.

As Linux is an Open Source OS, there are a lot of different drivers available for a great many different devices. Pocket PC and Palm may not support the same devices from device to device. All of the ROM images are machine specific and you risk a HUGE “loss of device” kinda thing if you flash a Linux device with a Pocket PC or Palm ROM image that the internals of the target device can’t handle.

Many of the PPC/ Palm drivers are proprietary based on the architecture of the device. I don’t know that the Sharp Zaurus would support drivers from any SINGLE ROM image. You may need the MS Core stuff from the original SDK that is sent to all OEM’s but then a video driver from one, an audio driver from another, and a virtual memory driver from who knows where…

I think this has been a one way upgrade (PPC to Linux) thus far because things on the Linux side are more standardized comparatively.

The same can be said for a Palm to Linux upgrade… It may not have been done because the Palm device may not have comparable/ compatible drivers on the Linux side.

From what I’ve seen of the entire process of PPC iPAQ to Linux iPAQ and back (There and Back Again: An Orc’s Tail (no, I didn’t spell that wrong…)), your Geek Coefficient has to be in the nose-bleed seats before this becomes a fun and easy project.

Going from Linux to PPC or Palm, or even Palm to Linux, hasn’t been successfully done and reported because the technical issues are probably insurmountable at this time.

But this is just a guess, really; and seriously nothing more than that…

Kind Regards,

Christopher Spera

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